Quick fyi I won't be able to talk 'till next week: computer is getting repaired.

Hi, Legacy!

Sorry that I was absent! I'm just very busy at the moment.

I know that this is kind of random, but did you know that the wikis aren't ruined and the message walls haven't been deleted yet? I know that I said a while back that they would be, and they still will be, but they haven't been yet.

As for where I'm going with this, I've currently created a planning thread for a roleplay on the Adventurous Dragon Fruit Wiki. It's here if you want to check it out(and potentially join it):https://adventurous-dragon-fruit.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:376

Speaking of the wiki, would you like to join it itself? I know that the update will mess things up soon, but me and Samurai are working hard on it in order to make it flourish and we would love to have someone else join it. It's completely up to you, though.

OH JEEZ I'M SO SORRY! 

It's okay! You probably got busy, and that's perfectly alright! I got busy as well!

Thank you!

Oooooooh! :eyes: Can I see it, please?

I thought you'd like that!!

I was reading TvTropes when I made this.


Blue and Orange Morality



What is This Trope? 

This trope is a system used to explain Radically Inhuman* Characters' morality, typically of the . It is when a character's sense of morals is so inhuman, it cannot be related to human morals in any easy way. If “Good/Evil” is the X-axis and “Lawful/Chaotic” is the Y-axis, then the Z-axis is the “Blue/Orange.” So, instead of "Black" (typically evil)  or "White" (typically good) or "Grey" (typically neutral) moral spectrum, there is a "Blue" and "Orange" moral spectrum instead. Now, this is where the creativity comes in, because “Blue” and “Orange” can be substituted for nearly anything!  This doesn’t mean the character doesn’t have a sense of morality (like Above Good & Evil (but both tropes overlap)). Rather, this means that the character’s sense of morality is radically different than a human-based version. They might be acting “Good” or “Evil” on their standards, but the values are different for more humanlike creatures.  For example, an immortal draconic alien-god might see rudeness as abhorrent yet be perfectly okay (if a bit miffed) with killing, considering permanent death is impossible and unthinkable for them. Meanwhile, a more Mad Science-y character will likely consider knowledge their greatest value no matter the method to obtain it. Torture, murder, and worse are okay if more knowledge is acquired. A hedonism-based value system will probably place pleasure as the most important value, no matter the consequences or the risks taken to acquire it. Even then, those are light examples, with the most hardcore Blue/Orange Morality systems being completely alien in a human worldview. In terms of Dungeons & Dragons alignment, the closest analogies would be True Neutral and Chaotic Neutral (in human perspective), although the nature of Blue/Orange Morality means it isn’t accurate from the inhuman perspective. To be more accurate, it’d be more akin to Lawful Chaotic or Chaotic Lawful, something that doesn’t make sense at all from a human perspective. More terrifying Eldritch Abominations, Mythological Creatures, Scientists, and the Fair Folk typically fall under this.  *Not always inhuman, sometimes just an extremely strange human.  

What are some examples? (SPOILERS AHOY!) 

The typical example of this trope would probably be Lovecraft, although the wording is highly uncomfortable in the modern day (it was written pre-WW2 but also this is Horribly Problematic Lovecraft, folks), so I will bring a trigger warning related to genocide (I bleeped out the word). Specifically related to the Great Old Ones (eldritch horrors) and the giant octopus-dragon-god that’s now become a part of pop culture. It speaks for itself, so I won’t go into analysis as much as I will with my other example. “"The time would be easy to know, for then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and revelling in joy. Then the liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth would flame with a h*loca*st of ecstasy and freedom." (Call of Cthulhu)Another example of this trope can be seen with the Spirits in Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra. While some of them are directly based off some human values (like Raava and Vaatu), many of them are very eldritch and downright alien at times. For example, in the knowledge-based morality, Wan Shi Tong is a good example of a Spirit who seeks knowledge above all else and flips out when Team Avatar breaks his request to not use the knowledge they acquire. To him, it doesn’t matter that the Fire Nation is going to destroy everyone else, the knowledge is more important than anything else. Though, to be fair, he has a reason to be justifiably angry about being lied to.

What are the Pitfalls? 

Despite its potential, Blue and Orange Morality is a very high-risk, high-reward trope. The problem is, with it, it is difficult to make a truly alien sense of morality. Human ethics and values can vary wildly and humans have a habit of seeing patterns even when the intent was very different. Because of this, a lot of times, the audience can look at an eldritch abomination with odd morality and decide if they’re Good or Evil on their own morals. Then you can run into the Designated Villain or Designated Hero trope, depending on who are the protagonists are who are the antagonists. Another problem is that the “Blue/Orange” might just be normal “Good/Evil” values with some spice added on. This is connected directly to the other pitfall I mentioned. The supposedly “Inhuman” morality is just traditional morality with a few quirks or differences. Often this cooperates with badly written Xenofiction, where the character’s mind is exactly like a human mind, even when the story suggests otherwise. The audience isn’t supposed to understand why this character does their actions (at least not without help), but easily figures it out just by knowing enough about humans in general. Because this pitfall is so close to the struggle to make an alien sense of morality (having a cause-effect relationship), it’s very difficult to get this trope right.

However, the reward of Blue and Orange Morality is that it can really make some memorable characters. 

Trope Advice?

RESEARCH! Psychology and biology are your best friends here! Research what human values show up despite cultural differences and why they exist. How many values are based off our species being social, mortal, and omnivorous? Research! There’s often an evolutionary explanation for a lot of things and understand why your Eldritch Abomination thinks the way it does will help you to differentiate it from humanity. Also, try to get a good beta-reader who can tell you if you’re not eldritch enough. Although honestly that’s probably something that can be said about good writers: they will research potentially difficult things and seek out advice… So, er, long story short: Blue and Orange Morality is when a (typically) inhuman character has a sense of morality that is very different than (typically) human morality. It can be easily messed up because it is hard to identify what isn’t common throughout humanity and how to apply it to a character. It is very rewarding though when it is applied correctly by a good writer and a good story. 

 Thank you for the show!

Last edited by EldritchAbyssDragon (8/06/2020 1:17 pm)

Ahhh thank you! Gotta love my creechur rambles.


Me too! Dragons are somehow very very special in that they appear across all cultures! I hope we'll get an eldritch horror one next. If not, I'd like to see exploration on the tropes What Measure is A Non-Human/Cute? OR maybe a more popular creature, like a vampire or mermaid or something.

Ya! I know there's a piece of folklore (from Japan I think) that if you eat mermaid flesh, you become immortal.

Weirdly related, but that's why I want more eldritch horror-like dragons. That's what they were originally like, and I love something terrifyingly ethereal. As a bonus, the plot twist of "The dragon was good all along" is more shocking when said dragon looks less traditionally cute or cool.

Also.... Beetle Dragons.

Yeah! There are some crazy mermaid myths.

Media-makers: I'm going to make my dragon mostly T. rex with a bit of cat. That'll be scary.
Me: *Holds up Chaos Lizard while ominous chanting occurs* That's cute.

BEETLE DRAGONS!!! I'm planning to get Hollow Knight so I'm in the arthropod mood.

Also on the Smithsonian Magazine's website, there's an article that has a person describing their cat in 889 CE. Surprisingly cute.

By the way, can I recommend Ask a Mortician to you?

It's basically a Youtube channel where a mortician(Caitlin) talks about all different kinds of things related to death(don't worry, it's less morbid than it sounds)!

Here's some of her videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPMJin0BTqE&t=29s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRVVX5pJ62I&t=1s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS2xFsK0klw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yZjAzDcAmc

Hope you have fun with them! :D

Last edited by Lavender (10/20/2020 1:58 pm)